FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCKITY FUCK FUCK YOU!!1!!1!

There. I said it.





(actually, not to tell you privileged douchedudebros how you should post, but this could be a good place for cataloguing some of the more spectacular shouty outbursts by the tourettes riddled, basement inhabiting, brats over at Atheism^FUCKED forum).

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2422#p39473

This could be a busy thread.

Sorry to be a wet blanket but there are plenty of forums on the intertubes that you can mock A plus excesses. I'm rather hoping that this place is where we can keep the lines of communication open.

Yawn...

I hear your point. I would have preferred if we had a 'Social and Fun' sub forum here where we could go for a bit of private fun. When I get around to it I intend to start a thread about this in the forum matters section.

But I think a bit of fun is good for everyone, as long as it doesn't dominate thoughtful discussion. And after all, I think most reasonable people can see the ridiculousness in comments of the type I linked too. I don't really see why we should hold back from that sort of nonsense. And on a more serious note, if the result of constant ridicule over these matters had the effect of either reducing the occurrences of that shit over there, or driving the wankers who do that out of the community, then I think that would be a positive thing.

DaveDodo007 wrote:Sorry to be a wet blanket but there are plenty of forums on the intertubes that you can mock A plus excesses. I'm rather hoping that this place is where we can keep the lines of communication open.

You're free to keep the lines of communication open if you so choose. Me, I don't want anything to do with that core group over there. They've clearly demonstrated to me that they have no interest in skeptical, logical or reasonable intercourse.

look who's being a shouty little twat, again...
http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2422&p=40105#p40073


He underlined and italicised it too! I'm not sure what he's going to do to up the stakes next time. I don't think you can get shoutier than red capitals, italicised and underlined. It's probably bolded too.

Larger font size, too. Don't forget that.

So "Changing social norms is what A+ is fucking about" - ?

Is that what Setar wants it to be about, or what it is about?

Or, my bad, perhaps Setar is the Official Leader of the Atheism+ Movement.

P.S. Setar identifies as genderqueer so would presumably not appreciate you using "him" to address zir.

P.P.S. I learned that when Setar blew up at someone for not recognizing zirs avatar as a genderqueer flag.

P. P. P. S. Or, more precisely, I learned that when zir blew up at a relative n00b for using a gendered pronoun when that n00b obviously would have recognized Setar's genderqueer flag so obviously was using the gendered pronoun on purpose, in bad faith.

fuck him.

(note, I'm not actually like this with real people. I just happen think Setar is subhuman, and isn't deserving of my respect).

rEvolutionist wrote:look who's being a shouty little twat, again...
http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2422&p=40105#p40073


He underlined and italicised it too! I'm not sure what he's going to do to up the stakes next time. I don't think you can get shoutier than red capitals, italicised and underlined. It's probably bolded too.

Hmm, just noticed that Eowyn (now Eowyn Entwife) nominated Setar's post above as Post of the Day, and thanked Setar for it.

Eowyn, if you're around (or anyone else who might be able to answer this): How can you (all of you) help social norms to change from "cis-binary privileged" to being more trans-aware, non-binary, & inclusive, if cis-binary people - members of the social mainstream - get yelled at, berated, cursed at, suspended, and banned in a discussion about the very thing you want to see change?

DaveDodo007 wrote:Sorry to be a wet blanket but there are plenty of forums on the intertubes that you can mock A plus excesses. I'm rather hoping that this place is where we can keep the lines of communication open.

As I said before - this is going to happen. A lot of people posting here have stuff to get off their chests. If it's confined to particular threads or sub-forums then it allows other discussions to proceed unscathed. However, too many people have suffered too much abuse and injustice to continue without venting in some way.

@ST... I know what the answer would be to that if you asked any of the zealots over there -

STOP FUCKING TONE POLICING YOU FUCKING DOUCHECANOE!!1!

I.e Only I have a right to be offended by other peoples words, not you.

Westprog wrote:

DaveDodo007 wrote:Sorry to be a wet blanket but there are plenty of forums on the intertubes that you can mock A plus excesses. I'm rather hoping that this place is where we can keep the lines of communication open.

As I said before - this is going to happen. A lot of people posting here have stuff to get off their chests. If it's confined to particular threads or sub-forums then it allows other discussions to proceed unscathed. However, too many people have suffered too much abuse and injustice to continue without venting in some way.

Are you suggesting a private forum for people who have made their childish hall of fame?
http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1258

I can't wait to see what they make up about me to put in there.

Zampano wrote:
Are you suggesting a private forum for people who have made their childish hall of fame?

Threads like this are fine.

rEvolutionist wrote:fuck him.

(note, I'm not actually like this with real people. I just happen think Setar is subhuman, and isn't deserving of my respect).

I happen to think that Setar is very much human, with all the irrationality, flaws and twatishness that come with being human. I also happen to think that calling anyone subhuman is totally out of line.

Nah, (s)he dishes it out, so it's not unreasonable that (s)he should get some in return. The key point in that post was that Setar isn't deserving of my respect.

I personally think there is no need to get personal.

While many persons at that so called 'safe space' forum act reprehensibly, that does not mean that they are reprehensible people. Once you start judging them personally, you begin to behave towards them as they behave towards others... which leads to acting no better than they do. I'd rather see us rise above that. Attack their behavior, acts, and arguments all you want. They will likely view that as a personal attack anyhow. So, there is no need to attack them personally.

Dar wrote:I personally think there is no need to get personal.

While many persons at that so called 'safe space' forum act reprehensibly, that does not mean that they are reprehensible people. Once you start judging them personally, you begin to behave towards them as they behave towards others... which leads to acting no better than they do. I'd rather see us rise above that. Attack their behavior, acts, and arguments all you want. They will likely view that as a personal attack anyhow. So, there is no need to attack them personally.

Exactly. They've already internalised A+ dogma to the point where they treat mild criticism of the movement as a personal affront, why give them an actual argument by going ad hominem yourself? Stay on the rational high ground, don't sink to the level of verbal poo-lobbing.

It is my naive, optimistic hope that over the course of a couple of weeks, people will realise the substantive differences in tolerance, openmindedness and willingness to discuss things in an adult, civilised manner between the A+Womb and this forum, and leave that place in droves.

AliRadicali wrote:

Dar wrote:I personally think there is no need to get personal.

While many persons at that so called 'safe space' forum act reprehensibly, that does not mean that they are reprehensible people. Once you start judging them personally, you begin to behave towards them as they behave towards others... which leads to acting no better than they do. I'd rather see us rise above that. Attack their behavior, acts, and arguments all you want. They will likely view that as a personal attack anyhow. So, there is no need to attack them personally.

Exactly. They've already internalised A+ dogma to the point where they treat mild criticism of the movement as a personal affront, why give them an actual argument by going ad hominem yourself? Stay on the rational high ground, don't sink to the level of verbal poo-lobbing.

It is my naive, optimistic hope that over the course of a couple of weeks, people will realise the substantive differences in tolerance, openmindedness and willingness to discuss things in an adult, civilised manner between the A+Womb and this forum, and leave that place in droves.

I don't know if this place has been mentioned there yet, but my guess is that A+unsafe will be a hate-filled anti-woman privileged sewer.

Dar wrote:I personally think there is no need to get personal.

While many persons at that so called 'safe space' forum act reprehensibly, that does not mean that they are reprehensible people. Once you start judging them personally, you begin to behave towards them as they behave towards others... which leads to acting no better than they do. I'd rather see us rise above that. Attack their behavior, acts, and arguments all you want. They will likely view that as a personal attack anyhow. So, there is no need to attack them personally.

Ad hominems attacks just provide ammunition to those wishing to label us as "women haters" as apposed to challenging unskeptical, illogical and unreasonable discourse.

Westprog wrote:

AliRadicali wrote:

Dar wrote:I personally think there is no need to get personal.

While many persons at that so called 'safe space' forum act reprehensibly, that does not mean that they are reprehensible people. Once you start judging them personally, you begin to behave towards them as they behave towards others... which leads to acting no better than they do. I'd rather see us rise above that. Attack their behavior, acts, and arguments all you want. They will likely view that as a personal attack anyhow. So, there is no need to attack them personally.

Exactly. They've already internalised A+ dogma to the point where they treat mild criticism of the movement as a personal affront, why give them an actual argument by going ad hominem yourself? Stay on the rational high ground, don't sink to the level of verbal poo-lobbing.

It is my naive, optimistic hope that over the course of a couple of weeks, people will realise the substantive differences in tolerance, openmindedness and willingness to discuss things in an adult, civilised manner between the A+Womb and this forum, and leave that place in droves.

I don't know if this place has been mentioned there yet, but my guess is that A+unsafe will be a hate-filled anti-woman privileged sewer.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2326

I'm sure there are many people at the other A+ forum and elsewhere that would like to see us get nasty and make sexist, racist, homophobic...etc remarks. I, for one, don't intent to provide them with any ammunition to attack us with. We need to prove we're above that!

Westprog wrote:

AliRadicali wrote:

Dar wrote:I personally think there is no need to get personal.

While many persons at that so called 'safe space' forum act reprehensibly, that does not mean that they are reprehensible people. Once you start judging them personally, you begin to behave towards them as they behave towards others... which leads to acting no better than they do. I'd rather see us rise above that. Attack their behavior, acts, and arguments all you want. They will likely view that as a personal attack anyhow. So, there is no need to attack them personally.

Exactly. They've already internalised A+ dogma to the point where they treat mild criticism of the movement as a personal affront, why give them an actual argument by going ad hominem yourself? Stay on the rational high ground, don't sink to the level of verbal poo-lobbing.

It is my naive, optimistic hope that over the course of a couple of weeks, people will realise the substantive differences in tolerance, openmindedness and willingness to discuss things in an adult, civilised manner between the A+Womb and this forum, and leave that place in droves.

I don't know if this place has been mentioned there yet, but my guess is that A+unsafe will be a hate-filled anti-woman privileged sewer.

Yeah, they are talking about it a little bit. But what you state here is actually a real concern of mine. I'd hate for this place to become a rabid anti-feminism site full of arrogant MRA types. That's why I as a general rule don't like unmoderated forums.

rEvolutionist wrote:

Westprog wrote:

AliRadicali wrote:

Dar wrote:I personally think there is no need to get personal.

While many persons at that so called 'safe space' forum act reprehensibly, that does not mean that they are reprehensible people. Once you start judging them personally, you begin to behave towards them as they behave towards others... which leads to acting no better than they do. I'd rather see us rise above that. Attack their behavior, acts, and arguments all you want. They will likely view that as a personal attack anyhow. So, there is no need to attack them personally.

Exactly. They've already internalised A+ dogma to the point where they treat mild criticism of the movement as a personal affront, why give them an actual argument by going ad hominem yourself? Stay on the rational high ground, don't sink to the level of verbal poo-lobbing.

It is my naive, optimistic hope that over the course of a couple of weeks, people will realise the substantive differences in tolerance, openmindedness and willingness to discuss things in an adult, civilised manner between the A+Womb and this forum, and leave that place in droves.

I don't know if this place has been mentioned there yet, but my guess is that A+unsafe will be a hate-filled anti-woman privileged sewer.

Yeah, they are talking about it a little bit. But what you state here is actually a real concern of mine. I'd hate for this place to become a rabid anti-feminism site full of arrogant MRA types. That's why I as a general rule don't like unmoderated forums.

I see they want to start getting more mods here in the next three weeks. I'm kind of curious about being a mod but I'm not to sure it's for me.

I'd hate to see it end up like the other forum, such an oppressive place.

Absolutely. But it's not an either/or situation. There's plenty of room in-between. But this is always a hard issue on internet forums. There's always plenty of members who want far less, to no, moderation; and there are always plenty of members who want more moderation. I don't think there is one right answer. It's pretty much got to be a trial and error process and modify the approach over time.

eta: I think one of the only justifiable "right" ways is to take a utilitarian assessment. That is, what provides the most benefit to the most people. That sort of gets you in the right area, then it's just a matter of fine-tuning things to meet the expectations of the membership.

rEvolutionist wrote:Absolutely. But it's not an either/or situation. There's plenty of room in-between. But this is always a hard issue on internet forums. There's always plenty of members who want far less, to no, moderation; and there are always plenty of members who want more moderation. I don't think there is one right answer. It's pretty much got to be a trial and error process and modify the approach over time.

I think we have a VERY good model of how a forum shouldn't be moderated!